is that still true, steve? >> no, all you have to do is lookk at detroit and the legacy and companies that went in to right to work states and they paid competitive wages and did well in a normal economy and the unions outlived their usefulness. >> rick, do unions have a pr problem and have to say go back to basics and say we make better products. >> they do have pr problems but a healthy chunk of that is the effort to discredit them and it took root. >> hold on, emac. it is not hard to discredit richard trunka who? in my eyes was like a thug. look what he did in the united mines. the folks perception is that they are thugs and not helping the union membership. >> their rhetoric goes in hyper drive and profoundly irerational of the things that unions are saying. i believe in protecting the work force. but you want a rational union leadership that we don't have in this country right now. >> last word from emac. coming up next. >> be smart in making the right investment. >> the administration wants more aid. but